Curse

Jerec The Raven · Mar 01, 2011, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I just recently did Urgoz for the first time with the alliance and I found that popping an essence of celerity and spamming Ural's Hammer when heroes get killed is a good way to kill Urgoz at the endgame.

Just wondering if ya'll bring Ural's Hammer into any danger zones.

Moonstalker · Mar 01, 2011, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I personally don't have groups that die enough to need an all party res, so I just stick to UA. :P
But Urals is fun!

Calista Blackblood · Mar 01, 2011, 05:54 AM // 05:54

It was fun for a day or two then just became an annoyance,especially on Keystone bars with Symbolic Celerity :/

Rites · Mar 01, 2011, 06:08 AM // 06:08

call me old fashioned but i still believe in making builds based on the concept of kill before i get killed, not die so we can do +33%

Kunder · Mar 01, 2011, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What does BUH have to do with Urgoz? I'm assuming you are talking about using EoE like 95% of groups do, in which case letting your heroes die doesn't kill him, its letting his summons die. Letting your heroes die is just... letting your heroes die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

It was fun for a day or two then just became an annoyance,especially on Keystone bars with Symbolic Celerity :/

Why? Is 1s spent recasting Symbolic Celerity not worth +33% damage to everything? I mean, I can see why its annoying but you weren't expecting a higher damage build that was easier to play, were you?

Quote:

call me old fashioned but i still believe in making builds based on the concept of kill before i get killed, not die so we can do +33%

You intentionally die once to gain a permanent 33% damage increase when its chained. Derp. What is it with people and not understanding how BUH works? Its pretty damn easy to use and abuse.

Outerworld · Mar 01, 2011, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Because death no matter how short harms DPS.

Rites · Mar 01, 2011, 02:13 PM // 14:13

because intentionally killing myself and my heroes is not good gameplay in my book

Calista Blackblood · Mar 01, 2011, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Why? Is 1s spent recasting Symbolic Celerity not worth +33% damage to everything? I mean, I can see why its annoying but you weren't expecting a higher damage build that was easier to play, were you?

You intentionally die once to gain a permanent 33% damage increase when its chained. Derp. What is it with people and not understanding how BUH works? Its pretty damn easy to use and abuse.

You see, you are posting in a forum section which is 99% based around SpeedClears of endgame areas,most of these builds meaning,that a death = -DPS = +time taken.

The main point about Symbolic(or any long recharge enchantment) is the 30sec+ recharge,you also die every 30 seconds so really,you won't be spending much time actually enchanted,that in turn decreases your damage output because your signets aren't and can't be using 15-16+ FC rank all of the time

Yes,SC could be dropped off the bar,but why would you? I haven't verified my math but dropping SC and getting ressed with BUH,doesn't actually do any more damage,it does LESS and adds more time,not only through lesser DPS,but time taken constantly ressing. And to be truly effective,it would require all of your damage professions to die at the start of a run,again adding time,un-necessesary

BUH,may be easy to abuse,but it is not for organised endgame play. This is just one bar,but the same theory generally applies throughout.

Jerec The Raven · Mar 01, 2011, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Well we were all Urgoz scrubs so we died a decent bit. And I have 700 rainbow candies so DP is not a factor.

Khomet Si Netjer · Mar 01, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

You see, you are posting in a forum section which is 99% based around SpeedClears of endgame areas,most of these builds meaning,that a death = -DPS = +time taken.

...

BUH,may be easy to abuse,but it is not for organised endgame play. This is just one bar,but the same theory generally applies throughout.

If BUH can prevent a wipe and prevent your group from failing a long mission then it is worth taking, because time = money and failed runs leave you with nothing. I don't use BUH but I can see why you might want to take it. We Shall Return has similar functionality.

Incidently, does anyone know if the new BUH works against Dhuum?
I haven't been to Underworld in a few weeks so haven't had a chance to test it.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 01, 2011, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

If BUH can prevent a wipe and prevent your group from failing a long mission then it is worth taking, because time = money and failed runs leave you with nothing. I don't use BUH but I can see why you might want to take it. We Shall Return has similar functionality.

Incidently, does anyone know if the new BUH works against Dhuum?
I haven't been to Underworld in a few weeks so haven't had a chance to test it.

In the instance of a near wipe,BUH won't solve lagspikes,bad monks,bad tanks,stripped seed,dead bonder blah blah,the wipe has to happen before BUH is useful./resign would probably be preferable if anything,making resses redundant and the "omg shiney new toy" syndrome all the more trivial.

Kunder · Mar 01, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

The main point about Symbolic(or any long recharge enchantment) is the 30sec+ recharge,you also die every 30 seconds so really,you won't be spending much time actually enchanted,that in turn decreases your damage output because your signets aren't and can't be using 15-16+ FC rank all of the time

Yes,SC could be dropped off the bar,but why would you? I haven't verified my math but dropping SC and getting ressed with BUH,doesn't actually do any more damage,it does LESS and adds more time,not only through lesser DPS,but time taken constantly ressing. And to be truly effective,it would require all of your damage professions to die at the start of a run,again adding time,un-necessesary

BUH,may be easy to abuse,but it is not for organised endgame play. This is just one bar,but the same theory generally applies throughout.

Dropping SC is stupid. Just recast it. 30s recharge, 30s life. 28s of +33% damage, 2s of 0 damage. Thats about 25% increase in damage over time. You would have a point if it was 40s recharge and you actually lost usable time due to dieing, but it isn't and you don't. The only real defense against BUH being unusable is with characters you seriously need to recast lots of enchants to regain their effectiveness, i.e. bonders and SoH users.

BUH is an instant cast shout, on 60s recharge with a 30s length. Your time loss is about as long as that of a Derv avatar deactivating (I.E. none, you are only limited by how long it takes you to re-target). Its ridiculously easy to use, with two people you simply use it as soon as its recharged. I've played with it, if you are losing more than half a second lying on the ground your team isn't even trying to pay attention. You should be alive before your body even hits the ground.

Dieing at the beginning of the run is ridiculously easy. Its called telling your healer to stop healing for a min. You aren't even losing much initial damage, your characters are smacking around enemies while they die anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

You see, you are posting in a forum section which is 99% based around SpeedClears of endgame areas,most of these builds meaning,that a death = -DPS = +time taken.

Because clearly H/Hing Urgoz that the OP mentioned points towards SCs... lol. Besides, we have a farming section for that. Elite/End game is a general area, not farming specific. Not that SCs shouldn't be using BUH, unless they have the above mentioned problematic skills or they split off from each other there is pretty much no reason not to.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 01, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Dropping SC is stupid. Just recast it. 30s recharge, 30s life. 28s of +33% damage, 2s of 0 damage. Thats about 25% increase in damage over time. You would have a point if it was 40s recharge and you actually lost usable time due to dieing, but it isn't and you don't. The only real defense against BUH being unusable is with characters you seriously need to recast lots of enchants to regain their effectiveness, i.e. bonders and SoH users.

BUH is an instant cast shout, on 60s recharge with a 30s length. Your time loss is about as long as that of a Derv avatar deactivating (I.E. none, you are only limited by how long it takes you to re-target). Its ridiculously easy to use, with two people you simply use it as soon as its recharged. I've played with it, if you are losing more than half a second lying on the ground your team isn't even trying to pay attention. You should be alive before your body even hits the ground.

Dieing at the beginning of the run is ridiculously easy. Its called telling your healer to stop healing for a min. You aren't even losing much initial damage, your characters are smacking around enemies while they die anyway.

Suicide gameplay should never be encouraged,you know that,but you will merrily carry on defending a skill that you also know is bad for promoting good gameplay.

Quote:

Because clearly H/Hing Urgoz that the OP mentioned points towards SCs... lol. Besides, we have a farming section for that. Elite/End game is a general area, not farming specific. Not that SCs shouldn't be using BUH, unless they have the above mentioned problematic skills or they split off from each other there is pretty much no reason not to.

Like I said,this section is 99% based on speedclears of elite endgame areas which are by far the most common teambuilds and goes beyond farming,hence why I requested this section added to house it.

This thread makes perfect sense to be here,the builds and team used are the 1% minority,but it doesn't change the ineffectiveness of BUH in context.

tipiak · Mar 01, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Echo + BuH = broken game.

MisterB · Mar 01, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipiak

Echo + BuH = broken game.

N/A Assassin's Promise/BUH Curses with a bunch of physicals, gogogogo! Perpetually animated +33% damage dealing minions smashing face is totally balanced and not overpowered at all.

Yes, Assassin's Promise instantly recharges BUH....